We have an IR system set that you can place a player on IR if he is doubtful or worse. I just noticed that a few owners added player that were doubtful but have been upgraded since adding them. Will the Fleaflicker system make them drop or take them off IR or will the commish have to instruct them to?
I love Fleaflicker, but I have to agree with most of the dissenting comments about how Fleaflicker is handling injury status updates. The Witten scenario is an absolute joke - to upgrade a player so shortly before kickoff and strand hundreds of team owners who rightly had him on the IR without the option of getting him off their IR in time before his roster status locks does not make sense, nor is it fair. And the rationale that the "IR should be used only for players who are definitely OUT..." is equally ridiculous when you provide the option to set the IR for players who are listed as "Doubtful", "Questionable" or whatever. I have always counted on the NFL injury lists and did not know that Fleaflicker staff would unilaterally (and with little to no notice to owners) change injury status based on their own judgment or on "reports from practice." If we had 24 hours notice to at least check and correct our rosters that would be one thing, but the Witten scenario totally locked me out of any further adds/drops - such an owner cannot correct that illegal roster even if they wanted to because Witten is locked as soon as you moved him to Probable. Mendenhall is another example. Listed a "Doubtful" on NFL injury lists, and on the website, so I pick him up and have him on my IR, then he mysteriously changes to "Questionable", so I basically have to drop him, then less than 24 hours later, changes back to "Doubtful." Seriously? I've been playing fantasy football for 15 years and have never run into an IR system managed like this. My suggestions is to just stick with injury status updates on a regular, predictable schedule - say Wednesday and Friday - preferably from one source (like the official NFL team injury lists). I know sometimes it may mean an active player gets carried on IR through a weekend, but it would make life simpler and avoid these sort of inadvertent and possibly unavoidable illegal roster situations. Either that, or if you really feel like "you shouldn't put doubtful players on IR, cause they might play," then don't offer that option. Our league has kept the "Doubtful or Out requirement for IR, but has changed the automated system to allow players up to Probable to stay on the IR without locking owners out - we will police it manually ourselves rather than risk the site basically tying an owner's hands for the whole weekend if someone at Fleaflicker decides to change a player's injury status just before kickoff.
It's the same system that was in place last year. The updates are invaluable on gameday to help teams set their starting lineups.
I understand where you're coming from, but you also have to understand all the comments we made regarding why we're doing it (they make sense from our end, we can't please everyone) -- and also realize this really only has the main impact on players playing in that Thursday game moving forward.
Thanks for your comments and suggestions, though, it's appreciated.
I understand, and I'm sure the Wednesday night game complicated the scenario in this case. And I imagine there are plenty of reasons to do it this way. We just finally voted in the IR rule this year, which also may explain why the mechanics in this particular case took me by surprise. We'll just monitor the injury status more closely going forward and address any similar scenarios, should they occur, on a case-by-case basis. Thanks for the reply.
That actually wasn't my question. I was wondering if the system moves a player off of IR if their status no longer qualifies them to be on IR or is that up to the owner/commish?
My example would be Mendenhall. Wednesday morning he was listed as out. I picked him up and put him on IR, now he is listed as questionable. Will the system make me remove him from IR?
You would have an illegal roster yes. In terms of Mendenhall, it was based on practice reports, but when the official injury report is released tomorrow, I would think he is downgraded from Questionable.
So, no, the system won't make you remove him, you can still play with him there and acquire points even if your roster is illegal, but if you wanted to make an outside league transaction, you'd have to move him off IR.
We'll look into seeing if we can lock the status from kickoff until Tuesday at 6AM when the fantasy football week finalizes and begins. I know that our head programmer was able to do something similarly, so we'll have this worked out.
It's actually fine. Are you referring to Witten being moved to probable? This was correct. Your owner moved him to IR because he was upgraded to probable. There's no issue here from what I can see.
What's the status on this? I am curious to as to what the ramifications mean when a roster is "illegal". IMO the whole roster should be locked down (starters/bench/adds/drops/trades) until you make your roster legal. Many teams in my league make very few add/drops/trades during the season so having an illegal roster has virtually no impact to them.
Players injury statuses cannot improve after the game starts, they can
only worsen.
The updates in question came in well before game start.
Witten went from doutbful to playing and that is something we have to reflect immediately.
If you had him on IR, yes, your team may show as illegal, but that is why you should use IR for players that are only definitely Out (someone like Ryan Mathews this week), or have your commissioner be more liberal with the IR settings and include probable there.
We're handling this correctly and will continue to do so this way.
Illegal means it will void their waiver claims. If you have IR restrictions in your league settings, that is guaranteed to happen, because FleaFlicker chooses not to mirror the actual NFL injury report, and because frequently on Tuesdays (or on bye weeks) Fleaflicker will simply remove a player's injury status.
In other words, the ONLY way to avoid this problem is to go into your league settings, allow any player to be put on IR, and then police it yourself. For the last three years, at least, you can't trust Fleaflicker to have accurate injury info, and therefore it will wrongly declare rosters illegal, and therefore it will screw up your waiver system and cause huge problems.
I cannot comprehend the current system. WHY does Fleaflicker not
1)Use the OFFICIAL NFL injury report.
2)Only change or remove and injury status when it changes on a future official injury report.
The terms OUT, DOUBTFUL, and QUESTIONABLE are all technical terms that Fleaflicker misuses. 99% of the league isn't even on an official injury report until this afternoon, yet Fleaflicker has those terms attached to a couple hundred players. Wrongly.
Teams would not be able to pick up any players or make claims only if it violates a roster max or a max at that position. Other than that, they'll score correctly (we don't force illegals to have 0s for the week or forfeit by Fleaflicker's default) and you can still make internal moves. It won't void a waiver claim unless it maxes out your roster or position number.
You are fundamentally confused about how injury status works in the NFL. RYAN MATHEWS IS NOT OUT. You are making a prediction. Nobody wants your predictions. We want the official NFL injury report.
We're not changing our system here for a couple of reasons:
The NFL changed how they run official injury reports this year. They are not the way they used to be. In the past, they just ran one official report Friday and that's it. Now, they must detail practice reports on official releases, so we are rightfully using "these practice reports" when you see changes to players. This makes our system even more sensible and advanced to use.
2) In terms of Mathews, he won't play on Sunday (99%), but since he practiced, even without contact, the Chargers had to list him as a non-out participant that way -- unlike a player like Stevenson Sylvester on the Steelers who is DEFINITELY out -- and legally, so did we. He (Mathews) will be OUT come Sunday and be allowed on your IR with no illegal roster ramifications if you kept him there when the official report was released or when the inactive would be released. This is less in our hands and more in the NFL's with their new rule. Also, your commissioner can be more liberal with the IR settings if they wish -- not in our hands either, but the NFL teams and your commish
Even though it's "less in our hands" since the NFL teams produce the practice reports themselves, four things and I hope they assist you and not seem nonsensical:
1. This is actually invaluable to receive updates like this and important for teams with players that may practice so you can see their progress and if they have a chance of making a quick recovery like Witten did
2. Players like Mathews who are highly doubtful/out will always switch to Out when the official report is produced on Friday.
3. When players are deemed inactive, we will switch them to Out automatically.
4. Your commish actually has full control of the league's IR settings.
Our system is actually far more advanced than other sites. We won't be changing this.
But what you do need to do is clearly explain, better IMO, what the ramifications are of having an "illegal" roster. That's important to me as a commissioner so I can make a better and informed decision on how to set up the rules.
Teams would not be able to pick up any players or make claims only if it violates a roster max or a max at that position. Other than that, they'll score correctly (we don't force illegals to have 0s for the week or forfeit by Fleaflicker's default) and you can still make internal moves. It won't void a waiver claim unless it maxes out your roster or position number.
"It won't void a waiver claim unless it maxes out your roster or position number."
In other words, it will break your waiver system 99% of the time, since the entire purpose of IR is to expand the size of your roster. I'm sure people use IR when they have empty roster spots. I'm also sure that's a tiny minority of cases.
Ok thank you, and yes I did see your response to McBain. What I should have said was there needs to be more information on the League Rules page, or under the commissioner settings when I set the rules of IR...so that you don't have to figure this out buried in a forum thread. ;-)
"Definitely out" is not "99% out". You have absolutely no guarantee Mathews is out. I have seen situations like this dozens of times where the player plays.
You confuse being advanced with being right or useful.
So here is the problem:
1)You declare Mathews out.
2)Someone puts him on IR and adds another player. His roster is now full.
3)Mathews is not, in fact, out.
So this person got an unfair advantage because Mathews never was out.
Look at what you are saying: "Players like Mathews who are highly doubtful/out will always switch to Out." So you are guaranteeing you will declare players OUT who are not out.
You are acting like the issue is solved by saying commissioners can just be more liberal. The point is you are way too liberal. Owning a player who is not out should never let you get an extra roster spot.
"This is actually invaluable to receive updates like this and important for teams with players that may practice so you can see their progress and if they have a chance of making a quick recovery like Witten did ".
If that is the purpose your execution is terrible. Simply create injury notifications that present this information without abusing and misusing the official injury declarations of PROBABLE, DOUBTFUL, and OUT.
I am the commissioner of a league and just realized the same thing. In my case Sidney Rice is on IR on a team in my league and he now has no injury status whatsoever. So in my opinion that team owner should be notified that he needs to drop a player from his team lets say it gives him 24/48 hrs to do so..if not it would automatically make said player a free agent. Idk just a thought. But I would def like to know how this is handled and how soon.
ScottFosterWed 9/5/12 10:49 PM
We have an IR system set that you can place a player on IR if he is doubtful or worse. I just noticed that a few owners added player that were doubtful but have been upgraded since adding them. Will the Fleaflicker system make them drop or take them off IR or will the commish have to instruct them to?
thedrich1Sat 9/8/12 3:40 PM
I love Fleaflicker, but I have to agree with most of the dissenting comments about how Fleaflicker is handling injury status updates. The Witten scenario is an absolute joke - to upgrade a player so shortly before kickoff and strand hundreds of team owners who rightly had him on the IR without the option of getting him off their IR in time before his roster status locks does not make sense, nor is it fair. And the rationale that the "IR should be used only for players who are definitely OUT..." is equally ridiculous when you provide the option to set the IR for players who are listed as "Doubtful", "Questionable" or whatever. I have always counted on the NFL injury lists and did not know that Fleaflicker staff would unilaterally (and with little to no notice to owners) change injury status based on their own judgment or on "reports from practice." If we had 24 hours notice to at least check and correct our rosters that would be one thing, but the Witten scenario totally locked me out of any further adds/drops - such an owner cannot correct that illegal roster even if they wanted to because Witten is locked as soon as you moved him to Probable. Mendenhall is another example. Listed a "Doubtful" on NFL injury lists, and on the website, so I pick him up and have him on my IR, then he mysteriously changes to "Questionable", so I basically have to drop him, then less than 24 hours later, changes back to "Doubtful." Seriously? I've been playing fantasy football for 15 years and have never run into an IR system managed like this. My suggestions is to just stick with injury status updates on a regular, predictable schedule - say Wednesday and Friday - preferably from one source (like the official NFL team injury lists). I know sometimes it may mean an active player gets carried on IR through a weekend, but it would make life simpler and avoid these sort of inadvertent and possibly unavoidable illegal roster situations. Either that, or if you really feel like "you shouldn't put doubtful players on IR, cause they might play," then don't offer that option. Our league has kept the "Doubtful or Out requirement for IR, but has changed the automated system to allow players up to Probable to stay on the IR without locking owners out - we will police it manually ourselves rather than risk the site basically tying an owner's hands for the whole weekend if someone at Fleaflicker decides to change a player's injury status just before kickoff.
FleaMod AdminSat 9/8/12 3:49 PM
It's the same system that was in place last year. The updates are invaluable on gameday to help teams set their starting lineups.
I understand where you're coming from, but you also have to understand all the comments we made regarding why we're doing it (they make sense from our end, we can't please everyone) -- and also realize this really only has the main impact on players playing in that Thursday game moving forward.
Thanks for your comments and suggestions, though, it's appreciated.
thedrich1Sat 9/8/12 3:55 PM
I understand, and I'm sure the Wednesday night game complicated the scenario in this case. And I imagine there are plenty of reasons to do it this way. We just finally voted in the IR rule this year, which also may explain why the mechanics in this particular case took me by surprise. We'll just monitor the injury status more closely going forward and address any similar scenarios, should they occur, on a case-by-case basis. Thanks for the reply.
ScottFosterThu 9/6/12 8:06 AM
That actually wasn't my question. I was wondering if the system moves a player off of IR if their status no longer qualifies them to be on IR or is that up to the owner/commish?
My example would be Mendenhall. Wednesday morning he was listed as out. I picked him up and put him on IR, now he is listed as questionable. Will the system make me remove him from IR?
Thanks for the help,
Scott
FleaMod AdminThu 9/6/12 8:29 AM
You would have an illegal roster yes. In terms of Mendenhall, it was based on practice reports, but when the official injury report is released tomorrow, I would think he is downgraded from Questionable.
So, no, the system won't make you remove him, you can still play with him there and acquire points even if your roster is illegal, but if you wanted to make an outside league transaction, you'd have to move him off IR.
FleaMod AdminWed 9/5/12 10:50 PM
We'll look into seeing if we can lock the status from kickoff until Tuesday at 6AM when the fantasy football week finalizes and begins. I know that our head programmer was able to do something similarly, so we'll have this worked out.
FleaMod AdminWed 9/5/12 10:57 PM
It's actually fine. Are you referring to Witten being moved to probable? This was correct. Your owner moved him to IR because he was upgraded to probable. There's no issue here from what I can see.
dtolbertThu 9/6/12 10:49 AM
What's the status on this? I am curious to as to what the ramifications mean when a roster is "illegal". IMO the whole roster should be locked down (starters/bench/adds/drops/trades) until you make your roster legal. Many teams in my league make very few add/drops/trades during the season so having an illegal roster has virtually no impact to them.
Please advise, Thank you!
FleaMod AdminThu 9/6/12 10:50 AM
We'll have a firm answer later, and are looking into alternatives to protect against illegal rosters.
dtolbertThu 9/6/12 11:14 AM
Thanks very much!
FleaMod AdminThu 9/6/12 5:23 PM
We talked about this as a team:
Players injury statuses cannot improve after the game starts, they can
only worsen.
The updates in question came in well before game start.
Witten went from doutbful to playing and that is something we have to reflect immediately.
If you had him on IR, yes, your team may show as illegal, but that is why you should use IR for players that are only definitely Out (someone like Ryan Mathews this week), or have your commissioner be more liberal with the IR settings and include probable there.
We're handling this correctly and will continue to do so this way.
dtolbertFri 9/7/12 7:35 AM
But what does illegal actually mean? What impact did it have in the above scenario?
McBainFri 9/7/12 8:28 AM
Illegal means it will void their waiver claims. If you have IR restrictions in your league settings, that is guaranteed to happen, because FleaFlicker chooses not to mirror the actual NFL injury report, and because frequently on Tuesdays (or on bye weeks) Fleaflicker will simply remove a player's injury status.
McBainFri 9/7/12 8:31 AM
In other words, the ONLY way to avoid this problem is to go into your league settings, allow any player to be put on IR, and then police it yourself. For the last three years, at least, you can't trust Fleaflicker to have accurate injury info, and therefore it will wrongly declare rosters illegal, and therefore it will screw up your waiver system and cause huge problems.
I cannot comprehend the current system. WHY does Fleaflicker not
1)Use the OFFICIAL NFL injury report.
2)Only change or remove and injury status when it changes on a future official injury report.
The terms OUT, DOUBTFUL, and QUESTIONABLE are all technical terms that Fleaflicker misuses. 99% of the league isn't even on an official injury report until this afternoon, yet Fleaflicker has those terms attached to a couple hundred players. Wrongly.
FleaMod AdminFri 9/7/12 9:39 AM
Teams would not be able to pick up any players or make claims only if it violates a roster max or a max at that position. Other than that, they'll score correctly (we don't force illegals to have 0s for the week or forfeit by Fleaflicker's default) and you can still make internal moves. It won't void a waiver claim unless it maxes out your roster or position number.
McBainFri 9/7/12 8:37 AM
"but that is why you should use IR for players that are only definitely Out (someone like Ryan Mathews this week)"
This is EXACTLY what I am talking about. You looked that up in your gut. Ryan Mathews IS NOT *OUT* right now. Look for yourself:
nfl.com
You are fundamentally confused about how injury status works in the NFL. RYAN MATHEWS IS NOT OUT. You are making a prediction. Nobody wants your predictions. We want the official NFL injury report.
McBainFri 9/7/12 8:39 AM
See how some players say "OUT"? See how Ryan Mathews says "LIMITED PARTICIPATION IN PRACTICE"?
Stop the insanity already.
FleaMod AdminFri 9/7/12 9:33 AM
We're not changing our system here for a couple of reasons:
The NFL changed how they run official injury reports this year. They are not the way they used to be. In the past, they just ran one official report Friday and that's it. Now, they must detail practice reports on official releases, so we are rightfully using "these practice reports" when you see changes to players. This makes our system even more sensible and advanced to use.
2) In terms of Mathews, he won't play on Sunday (99%), but since he practiced, even without contact, the Chargers had to list him as a non-out participant that way -- unlike a player like Stevenson Sylvester on the Steelers who is DEFINITELY out -- and legally, so did we. He (Mathews) will be OUT come Sunday and be allowed on your IR with no illegal roster ramifications if you kept him there when the official report was released or when the inactive would be released. This is less in our hands and more in the NFL's with their new rule. Also, your commissioner can be more liberal with the IR settings if they wish -- not in our hands either, but the NFL teams and your commish
Even though it's "less in our hands" since the NFL teams produce the practice reports themselves, four things and I hope they assist you and not seem nonsensical:
1. This is actually invaluable to receive updates like this and important for teams with players that may practice so you can see their progress and if they have a chance of making a quick recovery like Witten did
2. Players like Mathews who are highly doubtful/out will always switch to Out when the official report is produced on Friday.
3. When players are deemed inactive, we will switch them to Out automatically.
4. Your commish actually has full control of the league's IR settings.
Our system is actually far more advanced than other sites. We won't be changing this.
dtolbertFri 9/7/12 9:53 AM
But what you do need to do is clearly explain, better IMO, what the ramifications are of having an "illegal" roster. That's important to me as a commissioner so I can make a better and informed decision on how to set up the rules.
FleaMod AdminFri 9/7/12 9:59 AM
I did above in response to McBain:
Teams would not be able to pick up any players or make claims only if it violates a roster max or a max at that position. Other than that, they'll score correctly (we don't force illegals to have 0s for the week or forfeit by Fleaflicker's default) and you can still make internal moves. It won't void a waiver claim unless it maxes out your roster or position number.
FleaMod AdminFri 9/7/12 10:10 AM
You won't be able to add a player, however.
McBainFri 9/7/12 12:07 PM
"It won't void a waiver claim unless it maxes out your roster or position number."
In other words, it will break your waiver system 99% of the time, since the entire purpose of IR is to expand the size of your roster. I'm sure people use IR when they have empty roster spots. I'm also sure that's a tiny minority of cases.
dtolbertSat 9/8/12 8:03 AM
Ok thank you, and yes I did see your response to McBain. What I should have said was there needs to be more information on the League Rules page, or under the commissioner settings when I set the rules of IR...so that you don't have to figure this out buried in a forum thread. ;-)
McBainFri 9/7/12 11:59 AM
"Definitely out" is not "99% out". You have absolutely no guarantee Mathews is out. I have seen situations like this dozens of times where the player plays.
You confuse being advanced with being right or useful.
So here is the problem:
1)You declare Mathews out.
2)Someone puts him on IR and adds another player. His roster is now full.
3)Mathews is not, in fact, out.
So this person got an unfair advantage because Mathews never was out.
Look at what you are saying: "Players like Mathews who are highly doubtful/out will always switch to Out." So you are guaranteeing you will declare players OUT who are not out.
You are acting like the issue is solved by saying commissioners can just be more liberal. The point is you are way too liberal. Owning a player who is not out should never let you get an extra roster spot.
"This is actually invaluable to receive updates like this and important for teams with players that may practice so you can see their progress and if they have a chance of making a quick recovery like Witten did ".
If that is the purpose your execution is terrible. Simply create injury notifications that present this information without abusing and misusing the official injury declarations of PROBABLE, DOUBTFUL, and OUT.
JustinRoseThu 9/6/12 5:30 PM
I am the commissioner of a league and just realized the same thing. In my case Sidney Rice is on IR on a team in my league and he now has no injury status whatsoever. So in my opinion that team owner should be notified that he needs to drop a player from his team lets say it gives him 24/48 hrs to do so..if not it would automatically make said player a free agent. Idk just a thought. But I would def like to know how this is handled and how soon.
Thanks